Thunderbolts* post-credit scene: is Dark Reign coming to the MCU?

The final end credit scene of Thunderbolts* is one of the main reasons to see the movie, and it's both one of the best and one of the worst end credit scenes Marvel has ever had. It's good because it's full of great stuff. It's bad because I wish it had been either the third act of this film or its own sequel. It's frustrating to see so much condensed into about five minutes, or left to happen offscreen.

Thunderbolts* (2025), starring Florence Pugh, David Harbour and Sebastian Stan, set up all of this. Below I go through the comics history behind the scene, what it means for the MCU, why it looks like this storyline might be getting shortchanged, and the background of the Fantastic Four tease.

Why Val's company in Thunderbolts* sounds like Oscorp but isn't

I was surprised to hear Yelena say what sounded like Oscorp at the beginning of the movie. "I lit up like a Christmas tree." I thought we were finally getting back into the comics. Moments later I realized that, because of her accent, she was saying Ox with an X, and Val later confirmed that pronunciation. What a bummer. It seems the MCU went with that name instead of Oscorp.

For anyone who doesn't remember, since it's been a while since the Osborns were in a Spider-Man movie, Oscorp is Norman Osborn's company. Beyond helping him become the Green Goblin, it was a big part of the Dark Avengers and Dark Reign storyline. Those were good times for comic book readers, and that's what this movie is about. I don't think Marvel is going to turn around and reveal it was really an S all along. That would seem a little lame, but I'll take it.

How Norman Osborn took over in Marvel's Dark Reign comics

While major crossover events were going on at Marvel, a supposedly reformed Norman Osborn was quietly gaining power in the background. I think Brian Michael Bendis was behind much of this. In the early days of the MCU he was one of the architects, and he did a wonderful job planning out years of storylines with incredible connectivity. Perhaps Bendis is responsible for the early success of the MCU.

During Civil War and the Superhuman Registration Act, Osborn made friends with the government, which appointed him head of the Thunderbolts. That team was used to hunt down any superhumans who didn't register. Then came Secret Invasion, which went very poorly for the Avengers. They were seriously infiltrated by the Skrulls and couldn't stop them.

Superheroes don't kill, but Norman Osborn will. As head of the Thunderbolts, he stepped up and killed the Skrull queen, which helped bring the conflict to an end. She wasn't in the Secret Invasion show, which was a mistake, but she was in the comics. The US government lost all faith in the Avengers and SHIELD, dissolved both, and went all in with Osborn. He was allowed to create H.A.M.M.E.R., which got its own superhero team.

Tommy Lee Jones, Elon Musk and the real world parallels in Dark Reign

There are real world parallels here too. The original Norman Osborn was drawn to look like Tommy Lee Jones. That was a thing back then. Mark Millar had started it with his own comics, putting Halle Berry and Eminem in Wanted, though they didn't go on to star in that movie. I don't think Millar was behind the Tommy Lee Jones look, but I think it was inspired by his decision to make Samuel L. Jackson Nick Fury, which of course became a reality.

I don't think Tommy Lee Jones works as much these days, and who knows when, if ever, we'll get to Norman Osborn. Based on everything above, though, a different real life face comes to mind for me: Elon Musk and how he worked with the Trump administration before leaving his DOGE role in May 2025. I think there are many parallels. I think that would have given this story an amazing real world angle, which makes it all the more frustrating that it looks like they're going to gloss over the storyline and that angle with it.

Val, Sentry and a corporation that builds its own superhuman

In the MCU, Val has been building power behind the scenes for a while now, mostly on Disney Plus. She's very sneaky. She recruits superheroes who are damaged, both in reputation and emotionally, to become her personal rogue agents. She had seemed like another government official in the vein of the senator played by Garry Shandling, who tragically passed away, who was secretly working for Hydra. With Val, it turns out she works for something more sinister: a global conglomerate.

Her company is a clear nod to Oscorp, and I wish they'd gone with Oscorp. Aren't we friends with Amy Pascal and Sony now? "Give us Oscorp." A Norman Osborn tease, or Osborn showing up at the very end, would have helped. It probably would have leaked, which is a real problem for franchises these days, but I think it would have made this movie seem like a significantly bigger event. Either we're working with Sony on Spider-Man or we're not.

The company has science and weapons divisions. It runs its own missions with Val's operatives and tries to make its own superhuman, and it succeeds spectacularly. Sentry lives up to the hype. As Val says, he's as powerful as all the Avengers combined. A company did that. It only seems to have worked with Bob, but it's an incredible accomplishment. The company didn't cause Bob's mental illness, but it isn't helping either, and that leads to the creation of the Void. Who knows how?

Thunderbolts* New Avengers are the Dark Avengers in all but name

The movie continues the theme of government and a corporation working together to get around independent superheroes, who were pretty opinionated during Civil War. They want teams answerable to them, where no individual is too powerful. What could go wrong? Plenty. In the comics, Osborn's team appeared in a book called Dark Avengers. It's a great title. New Avengers, the name the MCU uses, isn't as cool, and this is New Avengers in name only. They're clearly doing the Dark Avengers storyline, but nobody would call themselves that.

In the comics, Osborn's villains passed themselves off as new versions of the original Avengers, with power sets close enough to borrow brand recognition. Osborn became Iron Patriot, complete with suit. Noh-Varr was Captain Marvel, back when that was still a male character. Moonstone posed as Ms. Marvel, Venom passed himself off as Spider-Man in a black suit, Bullseye was Hawkeye, and Wolverine's son Daken was Wolverine. Osborn also added Ares, the god of war, and Sentry, just like the new movie.

By the end of the movie, though, Bob refuses to become Sentry anymore, fearing it will turn him into the Void again. I'm sure they'll find a way to get him off the bench, or in this case off the recliner. The MCU doesn't have the guts to make villains Avengers, so it went with reformed villains turned antiheroes, as it did with Loki and Agatha. In their quest for forgiveness, they're eager to be seen as heroes and willing to make a deal with Val.

Yelena whispers to Val, "We own you now." But do they? Val is slippery. I bet that by the time they're settled in as Avengers, she has the upper hand again. Val is almost an Amanda Waller for Marvel, and there are obvious correlations to the Suicide Squad, but this is very much pulled from Dark Avengers. They let Val off the hook so they can be Avengers. Aren't these the kinds of poor decisions that got them into trouble in the first place?

Victoria Hand and Osborn's secret cabal behind Val

While Dark Avengers was going on, Osborn also assembled a secret cabal, because he wasn't going to take directions from the government. It was supposed to be who was really controlling things behind the scenes, his version of the Illuminati. Villains were heroes and heroes were villains. Hawkeye was masquerading as Ronin then, though the MCU already used that, which muddles things a bit. Since they're not really doing this part anyway, I guess it's okay, but that's frustrating.

This was a very well planned storyline from a time when comic books were a little better executed. Bendis had been laying the groundwork for years, and the Dark Avengers and Dark Reign event itself lasted for over a year. Osborn also had a personal assistant who helped run his Avengers and H.A.M.M.E.R.: Victoria Hand, think Maria Hill or Mercy Graves. In her early MCU days, Val was partially modeled after Victoria Hand. Even though Val exists in the comics too, visually she's very Victoria Hand.

Matching uniforms and Sam Wilson's lawsuit over the Avengers name

In the MCU, these Dark Avengers aren't pretending to be new versions of the originals. Some people thought Yelena might go by Black Widow, or White Widow as she has in the comics. Instead, they're given matching uniforms, which I think is clever. A team run by the government and a corporation wants to focus on the team, the product, not the individual. Everyone is easily replaced, and the same uniform can go to someone else.

I like the new uniforms, all black with red Avengers logos, and I wish we got to see them more. Apparently the company bought Avengers Tower and reopened the hair salon, because Yelena, Ghost and Bucky have fierce blowouts. There's a joke about Red Guardian suggesting they could be the Avengers with a Z. I thought his pit crew style suits were nice, though I wondered whether he's on the team or just support. I'm glad they didn't kill him. I thought he might die in this movie.

It's a shame Sam Wilson doesn't show up in this scene. He's mentioned, and it would have been nice to see him make a statement on the news instead of other characters speaking for him. He's challenging the new team's legitimacy, going as far as suing them over the Avengers name. Sam should have taken President Ross's offer to restart the Avengers. Ross couldn't be trusted, but Sam would have had a claim to the name and its assets.

Instead, Sam is playing catchup. When Bucky is asked whether he reached out to Sam, he says it didn't go well, which is hard to believe given they're best friends. Sam has to resort to a lawsuit. I don't love this look for Sam. Disney, take care of your characters. I think it makes Sam look weak.

Why skipping 14 months shortchanges the Dark Avengers in the MCU

The scene says 14 months later, an odd choice when it could have said a little over a year. It's surprising that the MCU skips over that run of the new Avengers. Why don't we get to see them be Avengers? Why jump to them probably being put out of business by Sam? I guess it's because they had to get to the Fantastic Four arrival, since that movie was only weeks or months away at the time. They're not going to have a Thunderbolts 2. It's nuts.

In the comics, it was fascinating to see the Dark Avengers in their new roles. Some became more evil with the freedom and trust heroes enjoy. Others tried to change and struggled with outside forces or internal ones. "Change is hard. Habits are hard to break." Thunderbolts* is a complex movie that, unlike other MCU projects, is willing to at least partly dive into the gray zone. The whole movie is about Yelena wanting to follow her sister and be a hero, and she achieves it, but we never get to see it.

We'll probably see them in action in Avengers: Doomsday, which is clearly why the Thunderbolts cast got chairs in that announcement. At the beginning of Doomsday, I guess there will be two teams: the official Avengers of the government and the corporation, and Sam Wilson's homegrown team acting in the name of Steve Rogers, who is technically still around. Maybe old Steve will step forward and make their claim legitimate. We thought the Thunderbolts might join the Avengers, but it's clearly going to be two teams.

Based on the chairs, Sam's team will have Falcon, Thor, Ant-Man, Shuri's Black Panther and Shang-Chi, which, with Sam himself, makes six, the size of the original team. I don't think M'Baku would be an Avenger, and I'm not sure about Namor either, but maybe Shuri could talk him into it. Then there are the Fantastic Four and whatever Fox X-Men Kevin Feige can afford. Disney has deep pockets, so find the money for Halle Berry.

The Fantastic Four ship tease and its Secret Wars roots

There's a surprising amount to say about the Fantastic Four tease, even though it's only their ship with a four on it. I half expected the Fantasticar, though I don't think it's built for multidimensional travel. I also thought it might resemble their space life raft from the Secret Wars comic, and I was expecting that donut to come swirling out of the sky. Instead it's that 1960s ship. It raises a question: how many dying universes will the Fantastic Four flee? They join the MCU, then the MCU has a problem in the Doomsday and Secret Wars storyline. People are probably going to start thinking they're bad luck.

In Secret Wars, the Fantastic Four created a space life raft and selected the heroes they felt would be most vital to survival, almost like Noah's ark. It's where Reed Richards gets his reputation for coldness, because he had to make hard choices about who couldn't make it. Not everybody got on, and the raft broke up in travel, with some falling off and dying. It's Marvel, so everyone ended up okay, but for a couple of minutes it was shocking. I don't think this one will break up, but I'd be careful getting onto their next one.

For comic readers, these storylines were a bit like Blackest Night was for DC: great multimonth crossover events. I'm glad the MCU is going back to them, and thankfully not butchering them as happened with Secret Invasion. But a new sadness has developed: largely skipping over them. What we do see here is very promising, and I think it deserves a Thunderbolts 2. It's a shame the MCU has to dive so quickly into the Fantastic Four, Doomsday and Secret Wars and skip what could have been a fascinating full chapter for the Avengers and these characters.