Deadpool in Secret Wars: could he lead the multiverse's heroes?

Before Deadpool & Wolverine reached theaters on July 26, 2024, Chris and I sat down to argue about how important Deadpool would be once he crossed into Avengers: Secret Wars. Chris made the case that Deadpool could lead the multiverse's heroes. I started out doubting it, and by the end of our talk I'd changed my mind a little: I came to believe he was going to be at least one of the leaders.

Deadpool & Wolverine, starring Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman, was right around the corner at the time. As I understood it, neither character was done after that film, and both were coming in Secret Wars. In my mind, Hugh Jackman and Wolverine were the same person in the way Deadpool and Ryan Reynolds are, at least until a new Wolverine comes along.

Chris's Deadpool theory: a depressed hero who wanted to matter

Chris has called Deadpool his all-time favorite Marvel superhero since long before the first Deadpool movie came out, and he said that film only amplified it. He thought many people got to know Deadpool through the movies, because the character was relatively unknown before them, and that a lot of people had since gotten behind him.

Chris's theory started from Deadpool repeatedly calling himself the Messiah and Marvel Jesus. In Chris's view, that audacity pointed to what the character wanted: he wanted to be important and he wanted to be a hero. That was where the film began, with Deadpool retired, his life changed, and depressed. Chris joked that it wasn't Deadpool we were starting with but depressed pool.

I thought the TVA was giving him a redemption, or, if we wanted to play into it, a resurrection. He wasn't with Vanessa in this film. They had apparently broken up, and because that was shown at CinemaCon, I treated it as confirmed rather than a leak. I guessed they had also shown some footage where the people around him wanted him to be Deadpool again.

Ryan Reynolds wrote much of Deadpool's story himself

Chris thought something unique about this film in the MCU was how heavily its main character's star was involved in creating the story and connecting it to the wider universe. Robert Downey Jr., Chris Evans and Chris Hemsworth had all been involved with their characters, he said, but maybe not to this level.

I had a story to back that up. At the world premiere of Shang-Chi, I talked with somebody who is friends with Ryan Reynolds; they're both Canadian and had bonded over that. I won't say who it was, because I don't know if they were allowed to tell me. According to that person, Reynolds had them over and showed them what he already had for Deadpool. He basically had a script done, and that was years ago, at the beginning of Phase Four. My guess was that he'd probably been working on it since Disney bought Fox, and that writers were brought in once it officially went into production to develop what he'd already done.

The view in the discussion was that Reynolds knew where A was and was bringing us to Z. Whether he was dragging Kevin Feige there or Feige had handed him the keys to the car didn't matter. Reynolds was going to fight for Deadpool to be what he wanted Deadpool to be, because he is Deadpool.

The Captain America Easter egg in the first teaser

Chris pointed to a line in the first teaser trailer about Deadpool wanting to be a hero among heroes. Many people might think he was mocking Captain America, because that would be the Deadpool thing to do. But in the comics, Chris explained, Deadpool loves and respects Captain America and looks up to him, which is very uncharacteristic. Chris's theory was that the films might be heading toward that: Deadpool admiring Cap's leadership and what he stands for, and a small part of a silly man wanting to be more than the Merc with a Mouth.

Chris also thought that by the end, Deadpool might be the most experienced multiverse traveler in the MCU, where there are very few. America Chavez can do it but isn't good at controlling it. Doctor Strange is still learning, and does dimensional jumping rather than multiverse jumping. Loki is probably the best at it, but Chris described him as incapacitated at the moment. So his idea was that the TVA, essentially Loki, would send Deadpool out to build a team of Multiverse Avengers, giving him the chance to become the idol he looked up to.

I asked whether Deadpool had an underlying wish to be legit, the way the Avengers and Captain America are, rather than a mercenary whose face got messed up while Cap turned into a beefcake. Chris said that based on the comics, it wouldn't be out of the question. If Reynolds wanted to show Deadpool was more than the guy throwing out crude jokes, there was precedent for it. Would the other characters want that? Maybe not, Chris said, but he didn't care.

Why I doubted the Secret Wars heroes would follow Deadpool

That was where I knew we'd disagree a little. I did think Deadpool would play a role in getting people together. I'd have loved the post credit scene of Deadpool & Wolverine to show him deciding to gather the OGs and go get Tobey, and I thought he'd assemble people because he could travel so well.

But I looked at who I expected at the center of Secret Wars: Tobey Maguire, Tom Holland and Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man, maybe a Robert Downey Jr. variant of Tony Stark, Captain America variants, Doctor Strange and maybe his variants, Mr. Fantastic and perhaps a council of Reed Richards, maybe a good variant of Kang, plus Scarlet Witch and many more. Out of all of them, I didn't think they'd look at Deadpool and decide he was in charge.

I did allow one thing. In the first Avengers film, Iron Man and Captain America went at each other. Deadpool isn't restrained at all, which is why we love him, so he could be the best person to lead in the sense that he'd tell everybody to shut up when there were too many chiefs. But for actually making the plan, I thought it would be Reed, Doctor Strange, and maybe an Iron Man variant or Tom Holland's Spider-Man.

Chris's counter: follow the money, and the X-Force precedent

Chris had several counters. First, follow the money: if Deadpool made 10 billion dollars, he'd be the new leader. Marvel was in a bit of a rocky place, and Chris went as far as saying Deadpool might be a make or break moment for the MCU. I agreed, but I didn't think the film was going to fail, and I pointed out that the trailers had already broken records.

Second, Chris went to Deadpool 2. Deadpool made a team there and led it, even if they all died. He had little posters and a board with faces, and he loved it. Whatever he claims, Chris said, he isn't a lone wolf. His team was goofy, and Chris said Brad Pitt was in it for three seconds, though that was disputed in the discussion. Chris's point was that the live action Deadpool already had precedent for building a team, and everybody loved that sequence. Now imagine him doing it with variants we know.

Chris pictured a variant Iron Man and a different variant Captain America who don't know each other, both of whom led the Avengers in their own universe, with Reed Richards as the biggest brain on Earth and Professor X in the corner thinking they're all idiots. Who would be in charge? Chris felt that wouldn't work and would mean another civil war, and that the only person who could cut through it would be Deadpool.

I expected the first Secret Wars meeting to be a clash

I'd been saying that I thought there would be two separate big scenes. In the first, people from different universes come together because the universe is falling apart. Then they break into teams, go to different universes to try to save parts of the multiverse, and come together again at the end in an Endgame style scene.

When they first came together, I thought they'd butt heads. I also didn't know, but felt there should be villains in that group, teaming up with the good guys because they don't want their own universe to die, and with ulterior motives of their own. So I did think Deadpool could be the one to tell everybody to be quiet, send two people through a portal to handle one job and take on another himself. The question was whether they'd listen to him.

Why the Spider-Man: No Way Home conversations mattered to Chris

Chris said the best parts of Spider-Man: No Way Home were the conversations, not the fights: the different versions of Peter realizing things about each other. He wanted that augmented by a hundred, with arguments and clashing characters, and Deadpool screaming, swearing at everybody and walking through a portal while everyone else says, "I guess we'll follow him."

The discussion also turned to ratings. Secret Wars wasn't going to be rated R, and under the standards of the time, a film got one F word before an R rating. If anyone was going to use it, the thought was that it would be Deadpool, not Peter Quill.

Would a variant Reed Richards or Iron Man lead instead?

Chris's last point was that a variant Captain America or Iron Man wouldn't be the leader because they're not ours. Wolverine, Deadpool and Spider-Man are ours. Chris didn't think a Reed Richards from a different world would show up and announce he was in charge, because we don't know that version, and the last one turned into spaghetti. I added that the Illuminati didn't do anything while that happened.

My counter was that a lot was going to go down in Doctor Strange 3. And if, from what we were hearing, the Fantastic Four's world got destroyed in their film, I thought they might leave by figuring out multiverse travel. That could make Reed one of the leaders, because he could say he knew how to do it. Again, though, who says people would listen? I could picture Deadpool pulling out an iPad to show everyone that scene and asking if this was who they wanted in charge.

I also wanted Deadpool to break the fourth wall, freeze everyone, and give a quick rundown with a marker: this is Tobey Maguire, the first one; this is Professor X, who has died many times but keeps coming back; this is an Iron Man variant, because Iron Man died. It would help anyone who hadn't seen every Marvel film and show.

Chris on Deadpool as the emotional leader and the Rosetta Stone

Chris was more excited about this many characters for the conversations than the battles. He thought many of the Disney+ shows and recent movies leaned too far into a final fight that ends up underwhelming. He could have taken a whole hour of dialogue between the three Spider-Men with no final fight, including the serious moment after Peter's aunt died, over a big explosion and Emilia Clarke with weird powers that don't make sense.

Chris thought Deadpool maybe wouldn't be the actual leader, because there was probably somebody more qualified, but he could be the emotional leader, making us love each character he shares a moment with. Chris didn't know if audiences or the characters would take Deadpool seriously as a leader, but he thought Deadpool had the attributes and the desire to do it well. In his words, "he isn't the Messiah as much as he is the Rosetta Stone," translating what fans want to the characters. Chris called breaking the fourth wall a superpower, arguably one of the most powerful there is.

I agreed with why Deadpool mattered. Tony Stark can come off sarcastic and condescending, as can Doctor Strange, but Deadpool is a guy who'll tell everyone to be quiet and do what they're good at. I also hoped they'd follow the No Way Home route where the heroes mess up together while figuring out how to work as a team.

Time travel, Kang, and the case for Deadpool as savior

I'd argued before that the fourth wall was the whole reason the TVA wanted Deadpool. She-Hulk could do something similar, but I didn't think her series handled it well. I also thought Deadpool might figure out multiverse jumping and maybe even controlling time. Since Kang controls time, I expected time travel in the fight, rewinding when a plan fails, like Loki trying over and over. I hoped that would be a big part of Secret Wars, if Kang was still the villain.

Chris noted that based on the Deadpool 2 post credit scene, Deadpool had already traveled, making him a top contender for multiverse travel, especially with TVA technology. I wondered whether he was going to be the savior of Marvel, not only at the box office but in the story itself. Chris pictured a big moment where Deadpool uses a portal or time travel to bring in the best Spider-Man for the win. It also made Chris want Secret Wars to be a three part film.

Where I landed: Deadpool as at least one of the leaders

Talking it through changed my view a little. I came to believe Deadpool would be at least one of the leaders, and I thought it would be because he'd tell everybody to shut up. That's why people would follow him, perhaps with his one permitted F word. We also imagined him teasing all film that he was saving it for Kang, then using it somewhere else.

Whether or not he led the team, I was sure of one thing: no matter what, Deadpool was going to be important.