Avengers: Doomsday: are Doctor Doom and Tony Stark variants?

I still think Doctor Doom and Tony Stark are multiversal variants in the MCU. A fan named Vincent asked me whether I was on board with my ScreenCrush colleague Ryan, who argued that we were wrong about Robert Downey Jr. playing a Tony variant as Doctor Doom. I wasn't. Ryan made a well put together argument that Doom and Tony Stark could simply happen to share a face, but I fundamentally disagree. I don't believe that's the case.

Why Doctor Doom and Tony Stark sharing a face by coincidence would feel cheap

I said months ago, maybe a year ago, that if we find out Victor Von Doom and Tony Stark happened to look alike, that would seem cheap and gimmicky to me. It's a no for me. Casting Robert Downey Jr. as Doom and then treating the resemblance as an accident isn't a route I want Marvel to take.

There are versions of the story where the face has an explanation, and even those point back to variants. Say Victor Von Doom is dreamwalking into a Tony Stark body. As we know, dreamwalking is when you dreamwalk into your variant self, not somebody else. So even that would imply that yes, they're multiversally connected and are variants.

Picture a scenario where we learn that Cillian Murphy is playing Victor Von Doom, and he's dreamwalking into a Tony Stark body, perhaps a dead Tony Stark body with the scarred face. He's hiding away and using this body as his puppet so that his true self is safe. Even that would imply they're still variants, even though they're played by different actors.

We saw this in Loki. There was Kid Loki and Classic Loki, and there was a Loki with a hammer who looked nothing like Tom Hiddleston, yet he was still a Loki. So even if we learned that Cillian Murphy is Victor Von Doom dreamwalking into Tony Stark's body, that still leaves the door open for them to be multiversally connected.

Ryan's idea of Doom taking Tony Stark's face still gives a reason

That dreamwalking scenario wasn't the argument Ryan made. Ryan made a cool argument that maybe we see Victor Von Doom fix his face and he takes the face of Tony Stark. That would be cool.

But even then, that's Marvel giving an in-story reason for him looking like Tony Stark. That's the thing I care about. I don't want a coincidental, gimmicky version where he happens to look like Tony Stark and nobody explains it. "I want there to be a reason."

The Multiverse Saga theme points to a Tony Stark variant

I've argued this for a while. The Multiverse Saga has introduced us to the concept of variants. It has introduced the theme that making tiny, different decisions can greatly affect who you become and how the world pans out. When you take the guy who played the hero of your last saga and cast him as the big bad of your next saga, it makes sense that Marvel would go the variant route.

Much of the pushback I've gotten, and that Ryan alludes to as well, is that the Russos, Kevin Feige and Marvel keep saying Victor Von Doom over and over. People use that as evidence that he's Victor Von Doom and therefore not a Tony Stark variant. I don't accept that. Him being Victor Von Doom doesn't rule out him being a variant.

I want to be clear about what I'm not arguing. I have never been of the opinion that Doctor Doom is going to be a Tony Stark who broke bad at some point and became Doom instead of Iron Man. I don't think that works. He'd have had the name Tony Stark, and then what, he changed his name to Victor Von Doom? That wouldn't make sense, and I wouldn't like it.

I also don't want a version where there was a split point at the snap, Tony survived, and now he goes by Victor Von Doom. That's weird to me. Maybe if he learned he was adopted and his real name is Victor Von Doom, that could be kind of cool. But even then, that Doom would have lived a life as Tony Stark, essentially the same Tony we followed through the Infinity Saga up to the point where it split. I don't like any of that.

One baby, two lives: Victor Von Doom in Latveria or Tony Stark with the Starks

Ryan says he wants a true, comic accurate Victor Von Doom. I've always said I do too. You can have that, and them being variants doesn't take away from it.

Here's what I like. A baby is born in Latveria and lives the exact same life Victor Von Doom does in the comics. He goes through all of the same things, is named Victor Von Doom because that's the name he was given, and grows up in Latveria. Then, in a branch reality, that same baby is born, but perhaps his parents are killed and he's adopted by the Starks, and he grows up to live a very different life.

Ryan doesn't like that idea. Think of the baby before he's even named. On one path he stays with his mother, is named Victor and becomes Doctor Doom. On the other he's adopted by the Starks, gets named Tony and becomes Iron Man. Ryan's view is that this individual being raised by the Starks versus growing up in Latveria wouldn't make them starkly different. He doesn't think Victor Von Doom raised by the Starks would become the character we know as Tony and Iron Man, or that a Tony Stark who grew up in Latveria would necessarily become a Doom type character.

I disagree, because I think these characters are so much alike. Without that silver spoon in his mouth and growing up in a very different setting, I could see the Tony we watched in the MCU going the Doom route. And I could see Doom not being so troubled, without a rough childhood or living in poverty. If he grew up under the Starks with a sheltered existence, I could see him being very much like Tony Stark. The comic book writers have thought this as well. They even did a comic, I forget the name of it, where Tony Stark and Victor Von Doom switch consciousnesses.

The Doctor Doom line I expect, and where I could be wrong

My position is that they're multiversally connected. I think we'll hear a line where perhaps Victor Von Doom, a full fledged Victor Von Doom, says something like "I am not Tony Stark. I am Victor Von Doom." I think some people will treat that as proof they're not variants. But he lived a completely different life, so he would be accurate in saying it. I still think the sheer fact that they share a face isn't going to be a coincidence. To me, that in itself means they're multiversally connected.

Could I be wrong? Yes. Maybe Marvel doesn't do the adoption idea, where the Tony Stark we know was really always Victor Von Doom but was adopted and lived a different life. And maybe they go the route of him stealing Tony's face. That's a possibility.

But I really think Marvel has had a plan for a while to dive into the fact that these two characters are extremely similar. I don't think they're going to do something like the gag where Deadpool thinks Johnny Storm is Steve Rogers because they look alike. I think that was a gag in a Deadpool movie.

What John Campea said about Avengers: Doomsday and Secret Wars

So yes, Ryan and I have a differing opinion on this. I love Ryan. He's my friend and my boss, and of course I can still disagree with him. He has been generous in letting me share all my opinions on this at ScreenCrush. We'll see who's right, and that's what's fun about all this.

The answer probably comes with Secret Wars. At the time, John Campea had said that Avengers: Doomsday doesn't address whether Victor Von Doom is a Tony variant, and that the answer will come in Secret Wars. So it looked like we'd be having this debate until then, though maybe after seeing Doomsday we'd have an idea one way or the other.

For a long time I thought Marvel wouldn't keep Robert Downey Jr. under the mask the entire movie, but I've been swayed on that. Campea also said the movie doesn't address the fact that they even look alike, which tells me nobody sees his face, probably because he has the mask on the whole time. Campea also said not to expect to see his face in the marketing. That's a little surprising, but it makes sense, since Doctor Doom rarely takes his mask off in the comics.

I don't think Marvel would cast Robert Downey Jr. and give him no connection to Tony, with his face so scarred you can't even tell it's him. They're not going to do that. I really do think they'll reveal that in the vast multiverse, individuals who seemingly have no connection apart from looking alike can be starkly different characters. And you can have characters who are variants and don't act alike or look alike, but they're still variants, like the Lokis we saw in the Loki series.