Why Doc Ock Could Still Be Alive for Avengers Doomsday's Rumored X-Men Opening

A rumor making the rounds claims Avengers Doomsday opens with Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man universe, including Alfred Molina's Doc Ock, fighting Fox's X-Men. In an earlier video I theorized that the Sentinels might not simply be battling the X-Men, but that the X-Men could actually be using the Sentinels to attack this other universe. I've now heard that idea is part of this rumor too.

That earlier video brought in a wave of comments, and I want to address the one that came up the most: my own excitement about Doc Ock possibly being joined by Green Goblin, Sandman, and others as Tobey Maguire's own team of powered allies helping fight off the X-Men.

Why Sandman and Green Goblin Probably Can't Join Doc Ock's Fight

A lot of commenters pointed out something I hadn't thought about despite referencing No Way Home so much in that earlier video: none of those villains would still have their powers except for Doc Ock. I was incorrect to suggest Sandman or anyone else could be part of some powered team alongside him.

Doc Ock is the exception because his mechanical arms aren't tied to a power that gets stripped away the way Sandman's or Green Goblin's abilities would be. So if this opening scene rumor holds up, it makes sense that he specifically is the one standing alongside Spider-Man rather than a whole roster of reformed villains.

How Doc Ock Could Still Be Alive After Dying in Spider-Man 2

The bigger question then becomes whether Doc Ock would even still be alive. If he's pulled back to the moment right before his redemption in Spider-Man 2, that moment should still play out roughly the same: he uses the arms to save the city, drowns the power of the sun in the palm of his hand, and dies when that happens.

I don't like rewriting Spider-Man 2, I think it's a masterpiece, so I'm not trying to retcon that scene. But I did wonder whether that redemption in No Way Home could retroactively tie into how he was able to overpower the arms in the first place. I don't know. Maybe in that moment he snaps back instead.

My best guess is that with the changing of the timeline, the branch timeline created when these villains were saved and made good again, something changed and he didn't have to die. Maybe he and Tobey worked together to drown the device and he survived. I don't think the movie is going to bother explaining it beyond something like: you remember Doc Ock, he became a good guy in No Way Home, here they are, this is their new universe. It's not supposed to exist, an incursion's happening, and these two guys are helping fight the X-Men.

A Possible Norman Osborn Appearance, Minus the Green Goblin

I think we could see Norman Osborn show up in the sense of Peter Parker, Dr. Octavius, and Dr. Osborn working together in a lab, studying the incursions and figuring out why the multiverse is collapsing and their universe is dying. But he wouldn't be the Green Goblin, since he wouldn't have the goblin serum unless he perfected it further.

I even wonder whether the serum would take away his powers entirely or just strip out the goblin aspect while leaving the strength behind. None of the rumors have actually said Green Goblin is part of this, but I do think it would be pretty cool to see Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man, Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin, and Alfred Molina's Doc Ock all fighting the X-Men together.

The Anchor Being Question Still Needs Answering

I received a question about whether Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man functions as the anchor being for his universe, and I've tried to explain anchor beings as best I can, though I don't think Marvel itself fully understands what an anchor being is or what the rules around it are.

That led to a good question I'm planning to cover separately: whether the X-Men really need to destroy Tobey's whole universe, or whether destroying Tobey himself, as the anchor being, would be enough to destroy that universe anyway.

This Rumor Still Isn't Confirmed, But It Doesn't Feel as Far-Fetched as Others

I want to be clear that this rumor might not be real. I don't know, we'll find out. I don't think it sounds as obviously fake as some other rumors that have circulated, and I'm not personally in the know on this one at all, but I do think it sounds cool from a storytelling perspective.

I think it's super important that whenever Avengers Doomsday opens, it establishes stakes right away: show that the incursions are real, universes are dying, and things are about to get bad, possibly with a willingness to actually kill some characters.

Why I Don't Think Tobey's Universe Gets Destroyed at the Very Start

I don't think they kill Tobey at the beginning of the movie. My guess is that Loki, or Deadpool and Wolverine, intervene because they're not on board with what the X-Men are about to do to save the universe. Magneto, Xavier, Deadpool, and Wolverine might all be pushing for a different way, while Cyclops and other X-Men with families argue that Tobey's universe is going to die either way, so they might as well survive.

I've already talked about Magneto possibly giving a speech along the lines of death coming for everyone, that it's not about how you die but who you are when you close your eyes, as an attempt to talk the others out of destroying the other universe.

A Doc Ock Death Scene Could Hit Harder Than Expected

I think this opening scene is going to be brutal, and I think you do see Alfred Molina's Doc Ock killed off again, this time in a big battle against a Sentinel or possibly Cyclops, maybe taking on a few X-Men at once while helping Tobey get away. Thinking about Doc Ock stepping up to protect Tobey so he can escape gives me actual chills.

I don't think it would just be longtime fans who feel that, I think general audiences would too, because these aren't obscure characters. Everybody has seen Spider-Man 2, everybody has seen the original X-Men movies, and No Way Home reminded everyone who these characters were while bringing in 1.9 billion dollars at the box office in the middle of a pandemic without even playing in China.

Marvel has perhaps rightfully been criticized for leaning on nostalgia a little thick, but I think nostalgia works when it actually serves the story instead of just exposition. Using these established characters instead of a bunch of exposition could deliver real emotional impact, like Doc Ock sacrificing himself so Tobey can get away. I'm really liking the idea of him being back, however they explain it.

Which pairing would you rather see fighting the X-Men in that opening scene: just Doc Ock alongside Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man, or a full reunion with Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin too?