Broly: Why Both the Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Super Versions Rank Among the Strongest in Dragon Ball

Broly is one of the strongest characters in Dragon Ball, and that holds for both the classic Dragon Ball Z version and the version Akira Toriyama rewrote for Dragon Ball Super: Broly. The idea is that Broly represents power and strength, and in this edition of the strongest in Dragon Ball I am looking at both versions and why each is so powerful and so terrifying.

Since I was a teenager first getting into Dragon Ball Z, Broly has had a pocket of fans who adore him and who have constantly said he is the strongest in Dragon Ball. When I finally watched the three Broly movies, the first one was fun and the other two maybe not so much. For decades he has been an incredibly popular character in certain fandom circles, and with Dragon Ball Super: Broly, Toriyama, along with Toei and Shueisha, chose to reboot and recreate him. Toriyama's version was much different, but still incredibly powerful. Later in this piece I also get to the Goku statement about Lord Beerus that has fuelled one of the biggest debates around the character.

Classic Broly was scaled far higher than the anime villains of his time

Broly from Dragon Ball Z starred in three movies during the series' original run in the 90s. Those movies were released theatrically alongside the anime but sat apart from the main story, whereas Dragon Ball Super: Broly was more of a continuation from where the Dragon Ball Super anime left off. The Z films have often been called non canon, but growing up I felt the villains of the films were relative to what was happening in the anime when each film came out.

Garlic Jr was the perfect villain, power wise, for Goku and Piccolo in the very first DBZ movie. That same Goku and Piccolo would have been destroyed by Lord Slug, and Lord Slug would have been annihilated by the Goku of Fusion Reborn. Movie villains do tend to be scaled upward, though, a little or a lot depending on how you view it, and I would say Broly is one of the characters skewed much higher than his anime counterparts. His first film arrived around the time the Cell Games were beginning, and there have been debates about whether Perfect Cell or Broly is stronger.

Behind the scenes, the Dragon Ball Z movies were usually written by Toei Animation staff such as Takao Koyama, who was in charge of pretty much all of the original 13 movies and worked alongside Toriyama and others to build those stories without a manga counterpart. Koyama has gone on record about the trouble he had following Broly, saying he struggled to create a villain stronger than him. Many power scalers have taken that statement as evidence that Broly is the most powerful movie villain of all time, and it is certainly a possibility. But each Dragon Ball Z movie is sort of an alternate timeline, and even though some connect with each other and with the anime, you cannot overthink the canon. If you treat the first Broly movie separately from later villains like Bojack, Janemba and Hirudegarn, he becomes easier to scale, because you also have to scale Goku and the others up to match him.

Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan wiped out the southern galaxy and laughed off kamehamehas

The first Broly movie, Dragon Ball Z movie 8, known in the US as Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan, is where interpretation matters most. In the very first scene we learn Broly is rampaging and destroying the entire southern quadrant, or southern galaxy. That has been a topic of interpretation too, because in the original manga there are only four galaxies and the word quadrant was really only used in the anime. Some believe there are only four galaxies in the entire universe, while others believe there are multiple galaxies within each quadrant.

In the fight scenes, Broly was smashing everyone by himself, which is really why he is so popular. Goku and Gohan were both at full power Super Saiyan, Vegeta and Trunks could tap into grade two and maybe grade three but seemed to stay closer to traditional Super Saiyan, and Piccolo had already fused with Kami. Broly was eating point blank kamehamehas and laughing about it. It took Goku getting power from all of his friends, Vegeta included, to punch Broly and defeat him.

There is a common misconception that Broly lost because Goku punched a scar left on him as a kid. That is completely untrue, and I debunked it years ago. Broly was defeated because Goku harnessed all the power his friends gave him into his fist and punched Broly directly in the stomach.

Second Coming made both Gohan and Broly stronger

Broly returned a few years later in the second film, known to many as Broly Second Coming, where he faced Gohan. In the anime and manga we later learn that Gohan did not train during the seven years between Cell and the Buu saga, so adult Gohan is not quite as strong as he was at the Cell Games. The movie makes no such statement, though, and based on when production began, it is quite possible the filmmakers did not even know this. Gohan even says in the film that he trained during those seven years.

That means the Gohan of Second Coming is more powerful than before, but so is Broly, because he got a zenkai after Goku beat him in the previous film. If you account for how impressive Broly was the first time and how much stronger he is now, Gohan must be stronger too. It still took the family kamehameha to kill Broly, and that scene is up for interpretation as well, since we do not know if that was Goku's ghost or Goku materialised on Earth. Whichever way you slice it, Broly was beaten again. Then came Bio-Broly, but that is more of a clone, so it is not the original Broly.

Takao Koyama is Broly's biggest fan, so take his claims with that in mind

When talking about the original Z Broly, who has the Legendary Super Saiyan power, you have to remember that Koyama, Broly's creator, is the biggest Broly fanboy out there. He takes pride in creating the character and he is always going to have his back, so he will say things like Broly being the strongest. A while ago, when people asked him about Z Broly on Twitter, he said he believes Broly could have destroyed a small universe but was not sure about a big universe, and that in time he could have done it.

When asked directly, Koyama also said Z Broly is stronger than the TV anime but not GT. That is a weird response, because it is hard to tell whether he meant Cell, as in the anime at the time the movie came out, or the entire Z anime. If it is the latter, Broly would be stronger than Buuhan. That is hard to swallow, but it can kind of make sense because the movies take place in a separate universe where everything gets scaled up. It is a far fetched explanation for a lot of people, so I leave it to you whether you accept it.

Koyama's contributions to Dragon Ball Z are always going to be respected by me, but he did not write the original manga. Anything outside the main story, whether video games, Dragon Ball Heroes or the movies, can be debated forever, so it is not worth screaming at someone because they think Broly might be universal plus tier or multiversal tier, as there actually might be evidence for that. SethTheProgrammer has debated this Broly topic for hours with multiple people and has his opinion, and you probably have yours. What is not in question is that against four Super Saiyans and a super Namekian Piccolo, compared to Cell, Broly was an absolute beast. Still, most movie villains are like this, because a movie has limited time and needs the hero to defeat the villain quickly to wrap things up. Thankfully, with Dragon Ball Super: Broly, it was not quite like that.

Dragon Ball Super's Broly is essentially a mutant Saiyan

Bringing Broly back was an idea from the production staff at Shueisha and Toei Animation after they looked at the popularity of various characters over the years. Toriyama was asked to write the script, and I think he wrote a pretty good movie. He took ideas from Koyama's Broly and modernised them, for lack of a better term. The film is essentially a story about three Saiyans and their fathers, Bardock, Paragus and King Vegeta, and how their destinies finally meet.

Kakarot was a low level Saiyan and Vegeta was a super elite from birth, but Broly's power was unusual. Early in the film it is difficult to nail down how strong he is, and one of the scientists suggests he may be a Legendary Super Saiyan, an homage to the old Z movies. My view is that Broly, unlike the other two, is a mutant. That word is not used in the movie, but I cannot think of a better one. We have always had characters with potential, like Gohan, Frieza and Jiren, but Broly's potential almost makes no sense unless you count him as a mutant.

Broly's Great Ape power in base form is not Super Saiyan 4

When Goku and Vegeta meet Broly, we learn he can take the power of a Great Ape, an Oozaru, which is a ten times multiplier, and harness it in his base form, even though he has no tail. A lot of fans compare that to Super Saiyan 4, and while I understand why, it is really not the same thing. This berserker form, or ikari as some call it, is its own thing and not the same as Trunks' ikari. It lets Broly harness that power and contain the brute waves, and it also lets him get incredibly strong as he fights.

Going back to early Dragon Ball Z, Saiyans have been able to get stronger after fighting and especially when near death. Vegeta and Goku exploited this in the Frieza saga, it was toned down for a while, and it popped up again in the Goku Black arc. With Broly, it is like the zenkai on steroids. Mid fight he goes from weaker than Super Saiyan God to manhandling two Super Saiyan Blues after the Tournament of Power and chewing through a combo beam from Goku and Vegeta. At this point they were ridiculously strong, past Resurrection F, past Goku Black, past the battles with Jiren and Kefla, and Broly caught up just like that. He then tapped into Super Saiyan after his father died, which gave him a 50 times multiplier on top of whatever mysterious multiplier he already has.

Broly took Gogeta Blue's biggest shots and might have kept growing

By the end of the film, Broly was fighting Gogeta Blue in his full power form and hanging in there, taking some of Gogeta's biggest shots. He was losing near the end, but he was not dying, and it was not until Gogeta changed strategy to focus on Broly's midsection that he really started to go down. Broly ate Gogeta Blue's Stardust Breaker and simply powered out of it.

Was that because he is not evil in this version, unlike the previous one, or because he is just that strong? That is up to you to decide. The main thing is that his bizarre mutation and genetic structure let him get stronger and stronger within the fight. Who knows whether he would have grown even stronger if Gogeta Blue had not gone for the kamehameha to finish him. In Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero, Broly had become a student, learning from very experienced martial artists in the company of Goku, Vegeta, Beerus and Whis, and his power may not even have limitations. We always hear about how Saiyans break their limits, and Goku and Vegeta have always been good at that, but Broly is on a different level. The only problem is that he has trouble controlling himself in that rage power.

Goku thinks Broly might be stronger than Lord Beerus

At the end of the movie, Goku says he thinks Broly might be stronger than Lord Beerus, which has been debated everywhere: Facebook, Reddit, countless message boards, Discord and YouTube. Is Goku serious after fighting and training with Beerus? Does he mean Broly has the potential to be stronger? Or is Goku misjudging because, as a lot of folks have said, he has never seen or fought Beerus at full power? If Broly really is stronger than Beerus, that would mean Gogeta Blue is too, and that Ultra Instinct Goku is likely or possibly stronger than Beerus, which a lot of people do not want to acknowledge.

My personal hypothesis, and it is up for debate, is that Goku was just excited to see Broly's potential and probably meant Broly could someday be stronger than Beerus. It has also been implied since Battle of Gods that any of these Saiyans could eventually surpass Beerus with the right training, and it felt like the show was heading in that direction, and the manga at some point in the future. Goku and Vegeta are more experienced, more educated martial artists, but it does seem that with Broly's mutated and powerful Saiyan genes, he could get there faster than anybody. Whether he can be controlled is the scary part.

Super Broly versus Z Broly is harder to call than it looks

Logically, Dragon Ball Super Broly is stronger than Dragon Ball Z Broly. He fights at god tier level against Super Saiyan Blues, and Z Broly never got that strong. But if you think of the movie universe as existing outside the main timeline, then in the Broly movie verse, Goku and Broly might both be scaled so much higher that the two versions are closer than you think. That is more of a fourth dimensional theory, not one I actually want to roll with, but it shows why Broly's strength is hard to quantify. Koyama himself confirmed on Twitter that Broly destroyed the southern quadrant, though not in one shot, and said that in time he could destroy the whole universe.

If Super's Broly is that much stronger, in theory he might be able to destroy multiple universes relatively easily, though we never saw that feat when he raged out. During the Gogeta versus Broly fight, however, they cracked the universe and accessed a different dimension, probably the most interesting scene of that fight for scaling. That is not far fetched in Dragon Ball, since Majin Buu and Vegito did something similar back in Z, and Goku and Beerus cracked the universe in the Dragon Ball Super anime too. It makes you wonder how much these characters are holding back. At this point, if somebody told me these Saiyans are omniversal, or on their way there in terms of power, I would not be surprised.

Do you think Goku meant Broly is already stronger than Lord Beerus, or only that he could get there someday?