Theory: Robert Downey Jr.'s Doctor Doom Is From the 838 Universe and the Illuminati

My theory is that Robert Downey Jr.'s Doctor Doom is from the 838 universe and was a part of the Illuminati we saw in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. At the time I put this theory together, the story Marvel was leading into with Avengers Doomsday seemed to me to line up perfectly with what Doctor Doom tried to do in the comics and with what we saw in Multiverse of Madness.

Below I'll explain how it all ties into Doom having better technology than our main universe Avengers, how he can travel the multiverse, how Doctor Strange gets involved and eventually becomes Doom's right hand man, his connection to the 838 Reed Richards, and how he was part of the Illuminati.

The Ultron bots in the Baxter Building may have been Doombots

In Multiverse of Madness, we got the Illuminati, and we got what we assumed to be Ultron bots. We assumed there was an Iron Man in this universe, maybe a superior Iron Man, and that the bots in the Baxter Building were Ultron bots. The idea was that the Tony Stark of this universe finally figured out how to do it and made Ultron successfully, most likely with the help of Reed Richards.

But what if it wasn't actually Tony? What if it was somebody who looks like Tony? With Robert Downey Jr. returning, so they say, as Victor von Doom, we'll have a Doctor Doom who looks just like Tony Stark. Around that time, a rumor from an insider claimed that Doom would use the fact that he looks like Tony Stark to his advantage when fighting the Avengers. Honestly, that was something we expected.

Doctor Doom is incredibly intelligent, one of the smartest people in Marvel history. That would also explain why the 838 universe, the one the Illuminati are in, is so much more advanced: they had a Doctor Doom and a Reed Richards who I believe were actually friends there. Or at least Doom tolerated Reed and was very close to Sue and Valeria.

Why I believe the empty Illuminati chair belongs to Doctor Doom

We know there was an extra chair in the Illuminati that nobody sat in, and a lot of people have wondered who the missing member was supposed to be. I believe the person meant to sit in that chair is Doctor Doom. The reason he wasn't there at that point is that he's out exploring the multiverse, trying to figure out how to save it.

That's something he ultimately does in the comics in the Time Runs Out storyline, and eventually Doctor Strange joins him. The two of them, with Molecule Man, attack the Beyonders, and Molecule Man gives the power of the Beyonders to Doom. From there Doom creates Battleworld, and Doctor Strange is right by his side. I believed that was what Marvel was leading up to.

So the empty chair, I believe, belongs to Doom. And those Ultron bots aren't actually Ultron bots but Doombots. Since they're in the Baxter Building, I believe they were most likely created by Victor von Doom and Reed Richards.

Why I don't think Doom starts out with a scarred face

Here's something that might upset fans a little bit. I'm not really sure we were going to get a Doctor Doom with a scarred face, not at first, at least. Let's be honest, you're not bringing Robert Downey Jr. back to the MCU to cover his face the entire time. Marvel is reportedly paying him over $100 million in salary and bonuses to play Doom in Doomsday and Secret Wars. You don't bring back the person who was Iron Man and the face of the MCU for over 10 years, pay him that kind of money, and hide his face the whole time.

I do think he will eventually get scarred, but most likely at the end of Avengers Doomsday, when he fully becomes the villain and puts the mask on. When we meet him, I don't think that will be the case. That means he most likely didn't have the accident that scarred his face while trying to build a device to communicate with his mother.

That accident also got him expelled from his university. If it didn't happen, he would have stayed there, and in this universe he could have been roommates with Reed Richards. Since he stayed, perhaps they went on to do things together. That's how Doom could be part of the Illuminati and also have contributed Doombots with Reed at the Baxter Building.

Doom's ties to Sue and Valeria Richards

Reed Richards mentions to the Scarlet Witch that he has children, which means both Franklin Richards and his daughter Valeria Richards are already born. In the comics, Doom is the one who saves Valeria, he also saves Sue, and he names Valeria.

If that's the case in this universe, then clearly Doom is close with the Fantastic Four family. That also means he's probably pretty angry that Mr. Fantastic and the rest of the Illuminati are dead.

Doctor Strange, not Reed, formed the Illuminati

As for why I think he's part of the Illuminati, the group explains to the 616 Doctor Strange that it was actually formed by the 838 Stephen Strange. That matters because you could argue that even if Doom was kind of close to the Fantastic Four family, he and Reed still weren't that close, so why would Reed invite him? We don't have to go there, because Strange formed it.

If you wanted the most powerful and smartest people in that universe in the Illuminati, you would definitely want Doom there. Second to Strange, he's the most powerful sorcerer there is, and in the comics he's the Sorcerer Supreme at one point. Some people argue that chair was for him, but I don't believe that to be so. I think Baron Mordo is sitting in the chair that used to belong to Strange: Strange was the Sorcerer Supreme, and when he died, Mordo took his place and his chair.

That raises the question of why they wouldn't choose Doom if Doom was in that universe. I actually think it's because he's out exploring the multiverse.

The 838 universe knows a lot about the multiverse

That brings me to the scene with Christine Palmer, where America Chavez and Doctor Strange are locked up. We immediately see that Christine, and therefore the 838 universe, knows a lot about the multiverse. Strange says they must know a lot about it if they're going around naming universes, and Christine says, "Yes, we do," and that she named it. She explains that she specializes in multiversal research at the Baxter Foundation. So they clearly have the ability to monitor other universes.

Combine a multiversal research department far enough along to have named the 616 and 838 universes, and we can assume others, with what Mr. Fantastic told Strange about incursions and the threat to the entire multiverse, and we can assume the Illuminati basically know the multiverse is in jeopardy. For whatever reason, incursions are happening and the threat of the multiverse being destroyed is real. They can link that to Doctor Strange, but I believe Doom is out there exploring.

Doom has the technology to travel the multiverse

Look at the technology Mr. Fantastic has when he teleports into the room. It looks an awful lot like what Kang used; in fact, pretty much exactly like the teleportation devices in the Ant-Man post credits scene with the Council of Kangs, where we see Kangs teleport into that big field. Whether this is related to Kang tech or not doesn't ultimately matter. What matters is Doom has this advanced technology, and clearly this universe has a way to explore other universes.

On top of that, Doctor Strange made a way to get into the Gap Junction, a place that exists outside of the multiverse. That's another way Doom could travel the entire multiverse. So basically, Doom has the tech or means to travel the multiverse, plus knowledge of it given everything that universe knows.

How Tony Stark's death could connect to Doom

This ties into what the Russo brothers said at the time: that Tony Stark's death in Endgame would directly affect Doom's story in Avengers Doomsday. Obviously this Doom looks exactly like Tony Stark because Robert Downey Jr. is playing him. Doom would realize that and use it to his advantage. Since he could look into other universes, and you can also travel back in time when you're outside of space and time, he could have seen everything that happened in the 616 universe and used all that information to his advantage.

We had heard for a while that Doom would have kind of his own team of Avengers, and that even some Avengers we know would choose to follow him. I think our Doctor Strange would be one of them. I think Doom would track down our Strange because he's responsible, along with the Scarlet Witch, for killing his Illuminati, including Reed Richards. Ultimately, I think this leads to the Time Runs Out event, with Strange going alongside Doom, the two creating Battleworld, and Strange as Doom's right hand man. That's actually what we saw in the leaked concept art.

Doom might pose as a Tony Stark variant

If Doom is from the 838 universe, then clearly they think Doctor Strange is a threat to the entire multiverse. But America Chavez said this Strange is different, and she had been around a lot of Stranges. Christine Palmer basically went with it and believed her. Doom might see that too, and see an opportunity to use Strange for his own good, which originally, I believe, would be to save the multiverse.

That's why he might act like he's a variant of Tony. Even if he's Victor, if he goes to the 616 universe, he might play it off like he's a Tony Stark variant so they trust him. Ultimately, it's Doctor Doom, and he most likely has ulterior motives. Again, he might be angry at the 616 universe for allowing the Scarlet Witch and their Strange to go to his universe and kill Mr. Fantastic and the Illuminati.

I'm not really sure he truly cares about Mr. Fantastic, but he cares about Valeria and Sue, and Valeria's father and Sue's husband dying would have a deep impact on the family. So he's going to be angry. We heard for a while after Multiverse of Madness that Marvel planned to have people from that universe be really angry at the people of the 616 universe, with that story finished later on. Having Doom come from there, knowing everything that happened, could close that story and tie everything together very nicely.

This may have been Kevin Feige's plan for years

We also learned that Robert Downey Jr. had been signed to return as Doom for a very long time, and that it was Kevin Feige's idea for him to return as Doom. So this plan had been in the works for years. It might always have been the plan for Doom to be part of the 838 universe and come into what was once Kang Dynasty and Avengers Secret Wars, because Doom has always been part of both Secret Wars storylines. An Avengers Secret Wars without Doom might feel a little empty in the MCU.

I think Feige realized this, so even when we still had Kang, I think his plan was to bring in Doom. Maybe not as the main villain, but as a villain. Having him come from the 838 universe makes sense, and it makes sense this might always have been the plan. There's a reason they showed us those bots, which could be Doombots, and left that chair open. Marvel does everything intentionally most of the time, and I believe this is one of those instances. A lot of fans have complained about the lack of connectivity within MCU projects, and this could tie everything together very nicely.

What do you think of the theory that Doctor Doom came from the 838 universe?