Vision Quest: who is the client and will Ultron turn bad?

I've enjoyed Vision Quest so far, and my biggest questions now are who the client is and whether Ultron will end up bad. I think the most logical answer for the client is Jim Hammond, the original Human Torch. I also think Ultron changed forever when he tasted real whiskey. Chris and I covered all of that, along with my theory that Loki is posing as Steve Rogers in some Avengers: Doomsday trailer scenes and how insiders get their leaks.

We didn't agree on everything. Chris is underwhelmed by Vision Quest, and he isn't sold on all of my Doomsday reasoning.

Chris is underwhelmed by Vision Quest's repeating dialogue

Chris has no problem with dialogue. He likes movies such as Dune and Eternals that are mostly dialogue, but only when it has depth. His complaint is that much of Vision Quest's dialogue hasn't changed since episode one. He enjoyed that first episode a lot, and he has enjoyed each one a little less since then. In his view, nothing much has been accomplished except Ultron getting out, which most people more or less expected.

What he feels he's gotten instead is the same questions on repeat: is he my son, do I have feelings, is Ultron bad. He left room for the final twists to bring it around for him.

I'm more positive. Episode five was slower, and six had a lot of reveals. Five was mostly self explanatory: they have to get control of the body back, and the only way to do that is to remove the firewall, which lets Ultron out. That's the biggest threat of Ultron in general. Once he gets online, he's there forever. The question now is whether he takes Jocasta's body at the end, although taking her body doesn't seem to be his master plan.

Why I think the whiskey changes Ultron

I think it's now very clear that the nanobots are the giant threat. Beyond that, I firmly believe Ultron changed forever when he drank the whiskey. Before, he was only a robotic analysis of the bad things in the world, with no understanding of why they happen from any point of view that isn't strictly logical. Now he can understand. He has been picking up feelings for years since Age of Ultron, when Vision backed him up, stuck there watching TV.

When he finally tastes the whiskey, I think it unlocks more of the beauty he sees in the world. It's a real spark, something to fight for. I think he turns on her eventually, and I think he's going to be the one to stop her.

Will he be a villain in the future? I firmly believe that too. I think something will flip the switch for him and the Avengers will have to deal with him. Maybe that's Secret Wars, as part of Doom's team.

Another moment that stood out was when she dupes him, gives him a virus and chains him to a chair. They made him seem like an old guy who can't handle himself, and then he stands up and breaks the chains. That fits the idea that Ultron is going through a discovery phase rather than being out for blood. He has been honest about it, calling himself a flip of a coin, a line he says in three different episodes.

Vision Quest's subtle Easter eggs

Chris loves the subtle Easter eggs that only land if you know the reference. His favorite example is Edith mentioning she had a teenage boy, Peter Parker, while wearing the Edith glasses. Knowing about Dummy and U makes it better to watch, but it isn't required. He sees that as a return to early MCU connectivity, where a helmet in the background meant something if you knew it.

Chris thinks Marvel struggled with that balance for a while: either nothing, or you needed extensive research. He would love the Avengers to be teased the same way in the X-Men, through a newspaper, a TV in the background, or Professor X referencing a god. I like that forward thinking, and it seems to me Marvel has a good grip on how they want things to be with TV.

The Stark Industries Easter eggs came up as well, and the discussion was that it feels good to see that world again. I think many people miss it.

Secret Wars cameos should speak

Alex Perez of Cosmic Circus has stated that there will be cameos galore in Secret Wars, but he compared them to the Ancient One or Red Skull in Endgame. So, by his account, they won't just appear and leave. They will have a point. I think the cameos will speak, and I want them to. Don't bring back Nic Cage's Ghost Rider if he isn't going to do anything, or is only on screen for five seconds.

On Chris Evans looking leaner rather than jacked in Doomsday, I was thinking his Steve has a son around 10 years old and hasn't been doing anything in that time. Granted, the super soldier serum shouldn't let him get out of shape. The counterpoint raised was that Steve works out constantly in the movies, and that Thor got out of shape despite being a god. The conclusion was that it's probably a bit of both.

Is Loki posing as Steve Rogers in the Avengers: Doomsday trailer?

Chris says I convinced him he wants it to be Loki, because that would be way cooler. In the first trailer, Thor says it's not possible, and I don't understand why he'd be so surprised to see Steve Rogers given everything Thor has seen. Chris said the way Steve navigates the Bifrost feels very Loki.

Chris's problem is that everything we've heard has been about the TVA card. He'd assume you can only reach the TVA via a portal, and in his opinion the Bifrost shouldn't be able to take you there, mechanically speaking. My answer is that if the writers say the Bifrost can take you to the TVA, it can.

I do find it weird that his nose and hairline are different, and I think that's a sign. His nose is a lot more pointy. I'm not the one who discovered that. Chris's question is why Marvel would bother editing Loki into Chris Evans for a half second clip, unless they're really trying to confuse us. There was also a sense that Marvel almost wants us to believe Loki isn't in it much, which could be a facade, and that gives me the feeling he might not die.

How Cap could reach Loki with the TVA card

Here's what I think could be happening. Cap comes with the Fantastic Four to the Avengers universe and tells them everything. He has the TVA card, he presses it, and Loki shows up. Maybe Loki told him, here's a card, if something happens, hit it and I'll come. Chris offered a simpler version: Thor asks Steve how he got there, Steve says it was Loki, and Thor says that's not possible. It was pointed out in the discussion that this still doesn't explain why he looks different.

I also think the Avengers and the Fantastic Four split up to different locations, the X-Men universe and Wakanda, while Thor and Steve, as we'll call them for now, go to find Loki. Maybe it's really Loki and Thor, with Loki offering to show Thor what Doom did. Thor would be reluctant to trust a Loki. They had a good ending in Ragnarok and Infinity War, but this is a different Loki, so Loki saying let's use the Bifrost makes a lot of sense to me.

There's a good amount we still don't know. I think Marvel has some curveballs to throw at us, and I think visually it's going to rock our worlds.

The baseball scene and Reed's stretching

Marvel teased new footage, the baseball scene, which ran about four seconds, and many comments online were upset. The baseball scene is going to be part of Doomsday, and the thinking in the discussion was that it may have been meant as the post credits scene for The Fantastic Four: First Steps before it was pulled. I do think Chris Evans was that mystery person on set.

Why cut it? Maybe it was too much too soon, would have distracted from the Fantastic Four, or the CGI wasn't finished. Or maybe Marvel realized Mr. Fantastic stretches more in that scene than in the entire movie. When I pointed that out, some people argued Reed can't stretch much when he's being forced to. I mean the whole movie: he barely stretched, and not far. I'm not hating on First Steps, but it was a weird choice, and I think we should have seen him stretch more.

Why I think Billy appears late in Vision Quest and Paladin turns good

Chris thinks we see Billy but not Wanda, and he doesn't expect a significant tease, because with these TV shows we get ahead of ourselves and nothing happens. I think it ends as a family reunion, with the missing piece being their mother. Maybe Billy says he feels her, or Vision says he only knows what he was told but, knowing how strong she is, maybe she survived.

I don't think Wanda is in Vision Quest, but I think they tease her at the end. I have no doubt Billy is in at least the final episode. I'm with Chris that he doesn't join the final fight, because Marvel makes these shows about the people they're about. I think he finds them after the final fight, probably in the last episode. The fight itself, I think, is Tommy and Vision with all the AIs, and I think Paladin joins them. From the beginning I've thought Paladin will be a good guy, breaking his contract once the client proves too evil.

Who is the client in Vision Quest?

I've thought Zola might be the client, and Val is another good option. Justin Hammer would be the funniest, coming out dancing like he did in Iron Man 2. I don't know why I want it to be Hammer so badly. Chris says there's no world where Hammer made Jocasta. My answer: he could have had help.

The case for Ultron is that the old Ultron would want control of Vision's body, but he already had that control when we see the client. I don't think the hat figure on screen is Ultron or Wanda. They keep going on about Ultron wearing hats, so it's a red herring.

I think the most logical answer is Jim Hammond, the original Human Torch, his consciousness wanting a body again. Such a finale could mean an AI battle against him, with Ultron deciding whether to destroy or save Vision.

Lisa, the girl Tommy likes, and the Young Masters

I thought Lisa was a villain in the comics. She's a founding member of the Young Masters, a group that initially masqueraded as a new Young Avengers. Maybe I'm misremembering, since they don't seem necessarily evil, and I don't think she'll be evil here. I think they save her. She's too old to be a Young Avenger, and I don't feel she's being set up for something big. I don't see her in Doomsday or Secret Wars, though Billy and Tommy do have a role.

On the rumor that Wanda won't have her memories in Secret Wars, I think she probably gets them back by the halfway point or a little before, and then it becomes about getting an army together to fight Doom.

All the Defenders should be in Secret Wars

I think everybody was excited to see Daredevil and Kingpin return in Daredevil: Born Again. Jessica Jones was in season two, and they've already revealed the others are returning in season three. If Marvel is going to have almost everybody, which I think will be the case, there's no reason to keep the Defenders out when they know we want them.

How Marvel insiders get their leaks

I think some insiders do make things up, which makes my job harder. I've never wanted to be one. Marvel security has called me more than once asking me to take something down and how I heard it, when it was all over Reddit and Twitter. But there are legitimate insiders who have gotten many things right.

I know test screenings are real because I was invited to one. You sign an NDA, but you can say anything anonymously online. Sets have many people, and Marvel uses much of the same crew, so it doesn't know who's leaking. I think insiders might pay sources because they'll make money off it. Think of the No Way Home photo of the three Spider-Men. People talk.

I think lawyers and paralegals are behind many casting rumors. Chris pointed to translators as a huge source, and I agree. They get the whole script and translate everything into many languages.

Street Fighter is one of my favorite movies

I haven't seen Clayface yet, but I've heard it's good. Critics are negative on Street Fighter, but I thought it was fantastic, one of my favorite movies. I laughed a lot, and it has good serious parts. If you like the trailer, I think you'll like the movie.