Avengers: Secret Wars Delay Rumors: Why I Still Think It Hits December 17, 2027

Two scoopers are now reporting that filming on Avengers: Secret Wars has been pushed back, and a lot of people are worried the movie will slip to 2028. My position is simple: no. I still think the movie comes out December 17, 2027, because the Russo brothers have a few production secret weapons they aren't talking about.

Before we get to those, we went through what the Russos have been saying about Avengers: Doomsday and Secret Wars, what Jess and I make of the Endgame Encore scenes, and a new round of our need it or nah game for Battleworld.

The Endgame Encore scenes are teases, not footage from Doomsday

Endgame Encore came with four scenes: a changed ending where Steve goes back in time to dance with Peggy, which was extended with Loki knocking at the door; Bruce Banner in a bunker; the TVA reacting to two universes fighting and all these incursions; and Doctor Doom hammering. Jess admitted none of it makes sense to her, but she thinks that's the point. In a movie that is ripping apart all of reality, we don't know what's true, and even a scene of Loki or Bruce Banner hiding somewhere could be something Doom reconstructs and changes.

The Russo brothers have even said these scenes won't be in Doomsday. They're meant to be connective bridge tissue. We won't see Mark Ruffalo screaming in that bunker with a green glow on his face, or that exact scene of Owen Wilson and the TVA reacting to screens, or the scene with Hayley Atwell and Chris Evans. I think that's why the Steve and Peggy scene felt the most underbaked. Still, I was surprised they built the TVA set, and I think we will see quick cutaways to the TVA while the two Earths fight it out.

Jess suggested these could be scenes that were shot and are now deleted scenes, or might eventually become fully fledged deleted scenes. I bet they show up on the digital or 4K release for Doomsday, which I'd guess will probably happen in April or so, and on Disney Plus. Jess found it kind of crazy that Marvel would allow that, though she noted it's normal for Marvel not to have a finished script, so it makes sense that a lot of things probably get cut.

Joe Russo calls Doomsday intense, and Jess thinks the fear will be emotional

The Russos have kind of gone to a couple different news outlets to explain these choices. I enjoy that, and I'd contrast it with Christopher Nolan, who I think gets annoyed when people ask him about the spinning top. Speaking to Fandango, Joe Russo was asked whether Doomsday is the scariest Avengers movie. "It's intense," he said, adding that it's different than any of the other movies Marvel has made. "I think it's very surprising what happens with the film. The tone is very different." He also said Downey is playing one of the all-time great villains and will bring a level of gravitas and energy that can be frightening.

Jess thinks the only thing we've seen at this level is Thanos snapping, and there's a difference between Thanos snapping and Doom killing people. She feels this will be more emotionally driven than other Marvel movies, because if it's true that Steve Rogers messed up, he has to be ripped away from the family he cherishes. In her view, the terrifying part will come from the emotional gravity of it all, not horror storytelling, more a sense of how could someone do this.

I see waves of intensity. The first is how menacing and angry Doom comes off. Thanos was pretty chill, Ultron was rarely that angry, and Loki was over the top in some ways, but none had the simmering rage I think Doom will have. The second wave is Doom torturing people a little. Jess noted Thanos physically tortured Nebula, while she thinks Doom will play with people mentally, pointing to the scene of Reed Richards screaming. I also think there will be some body horror in the final 15 minutes, possibly including Ben Grimm being turned into a giant wall, and I read the Russos' comments as a warning that little kids might be a little shocked.

Anthony Russo says Doomsday runs two and a half hours or so

Anthony Russo was also asked how they balance so many characters. His answer was that you're telling a focused story, a "two and a half hour movie or so," a "focused propulsive narrative" with an organizing principle at its center that everything has to orbit around. Jess and I both assumed it would be longer.

I think we have a vague idea of that organizing principle: three Earths colliding, which means leaving out characters who aren't needed for that particular fight. Jess thinks Hayley Atwell will be in it more than Cassie Lang, though she finds it annoying that Peggy seems tied to Steve Rogers, and hopes she doesn't die. There's also Hailee Steinfeld, and it's hard for me to picture this movie without Monica Rambeau, yet Monica never comes up in these interviews and it doesn't seem like Teyonah Parris will be in it. I find it a little weird that Scott Lang is on the call sheet but characters directly involved in a post credits scene tied to the incursion conflict are not.

Jess thinks there's only so much the Russos can write, and that giving every character an arc would be impossible. She expects them to overlook a lot of the Wakandan material, which she sees as Ryan Coogler's territory rather than theirs, and noted that in Infinity War and Endgame they didn't need to add much to Star-Lord because James Gunn had already built his history with Gamora. She won't criticize them for not giving everyone a big part, but she thinks it's clearly built around Steve Rogers, Doctor Doom, a little bit of the Fantastic Four, and Thor.

Asked about Secret Wars, the Russos talked about the ending of Doomsday

When asked what kind of experience to expect from Secret Wars, the brothers compared it to kids shaking presents on Christmas morning: "don't shake the presents, just wait and open the present." They added, "It's a very surprising ending. Uh it's a very surprising movie."

I noticed that the question was about Secret Wars, yet the answer was about the ending of Doomsday. To me, that's a clue that this is all one big production in the Russos' minds, which leads straight into the delay rumors.

Scoopers report Secret Wars filming has slipped to November or January

Daniel RPK has said that filming for Avengers: Secret Wars has officially been delayed to November. According to that report, filming was originally set to begin in October, two weeks from now, to meet a December 2027 release date. Another scooper, Apocalyptic Horsemen, went further, saying filming has reportedly been delayed to January of 2027.

I don't think either of them has the full picture. I think a production period has been shifted and that there will be production happening in January, but some people assumed production would run from October to December of this year, so I think both things can be true. I'm adamant the movie still comes out December 17, 2027. In my view there are too many other movies in production that Marvel doesn't want to delay, it's very important for Disney, Josh D'Amaro will move heaven and earth to have a massive December movie in 2027, and there's nothing else to move into that slot.

Secret weapon one: a chunk of Secret Wars may already be shot

My first secret weapon is that I think the Russos already shot a big chunk of this movie in August and September. The sets built for the final sequence of Doomsday include sets for Battleworld, and people were flown to London to shoot scenes on those soundstages. Those actors might be confused about whether they were shooting Doomsday or Secret Wars.

That's how I read Hailee Steinfeld's answer when Jimmy Fallon asked her about it on the Tonight Show: "Time will tell." I think she legitimately shot scenes on this set without knowing which movie they were for. Jess pointed out that this happens all the time, noting that the actor playing Nightcrawler keeps saying he doesn't know what he shot, and she doesn't think he's joking. I think the Nightcrawler scenes may have been shot alongside Pedro Pascal and Kelsey Grammer.

Secret weapon two: two directors dividing and conquering

The second weapon is one I think people forget. We think of the Russo brothers as one entity, when really they divide and conquer, which is why they're efficient. There are scenes where only Anthony is shooting, so one brother can handle exterior shots with one group while the other works elsewhere the same day. They're also paid as a pair: 80 million for these two movies works out to 20 million each per movie.

Very few directing duos work that way, even brothers: the Coen brothers, the Safdie brothers, the Wachowskis and the Farrelly brothers. The Russos also work well with their department heads, with second unit directors directing something like a third of the movie.

Secret weapon three, pure conjecture: AI assisted effects for Battleworld

My third idea is not news. I have no source, it's pure conjecture, and it's a total theory. My starting point is that the Russos have appointed experts in artificial intelligence to work at AGBO. I think three distinct Earths colliding has no reference point in cinema, and a model wouldn't look right. I'd point to Christopher Nolan using a practical explosion for the Trinity test in Oppenheimer, which I think didn't look right because it needed to be otherworldly. I think the Russos may use AI assisted effects as a starting point, and because no one has seen three Earths crumbling together, there may be no uncanny valley.

Jess thinks the theory is sound, but argued they could use it and it still wouldn't be groundbreaking. The Russos aren't rocket scientists, she said, and she doesn't think they know what it will look like either. Parts of the MCU feel cash grabby to her, and while she thinks the Russos care more about story and characters, she doesn't think they pay as much attention to spectacle as Nolan does. It might just look like three balls hitting each other like a billiard set.

I could be totally wrong, and I hope there are scale models and stop motion animators somewhere, the way X-Men: The Last Stand used a scale model of the Golden Gate Bridge, or the way Jurassic Park in 1993 blended practical work and effects. I want someone to think through atmospheres colliding, satellites smashing into each other, people receiving programming from another Earth, and astronauts falling. I hope they don't just put it into a prompt, but I cynically think the tools don't exist yet, since I've never seen ILM, Framestore or Weta build something on that scale. I also noticed that Steve looked a little weird in the Endgame Encore post credits scene and the audience I saw it with didn't care.

Need it or nah: the release date, Ultron and Ghost Rider get the votes

We both need Secret Wars to keep its December 17, 2027 date. On Tom Holland in a symbiote inspired black suit, I said need it, while Jess said no, arguing it belongs in his own movie, not shared with 18 other people. I think 2007's Spider-Man means we understand the suit from sight alone, though I think most people probably agree with Jess. Neither of us needs Maestro Hulk; I'd rather save him for a proper Hulk movie.

I need the Great Wall of Grimm from Jonathan Hickman's Secret Wars, where Doom stretches Ben Grimm into a wall that separates the safer regions of Battleworld from the dangerous ones. Jess voted need it too, but only because "I need you to stop talking about it." On Wanda, Jess passed because she'd rather see her in something else, though she'll take her wherever she can get her, while I need her in Doomsday, with the X-Men I expect to die there. On Moon Knight, Jess said yes because she needs proof it's a shared universe, and she'd love She-Hulk and Ironheart too, though she doubts it will happen given the cost. I didn't need him.

We both need Ultron. Jess wants all the past villains, I added Thanos, and I think Doom could convert Ultron's sentries into Doombots woven with adamantium. Neither of us needs Nova, who Jess thinks should be his own thing. Jess needs Ghost Rider to remind us the supernatural exists, and I agreed Battleworld needs gnarly characters. Neither of us needs a soft reboot, though Jess wants Kang recast right away. I'd like a subtle Kang story with the Fantastic Four where his face keeps showing up in history, and Jess said she agreed and called it a great idea.

Which of these Battleworld additions would you most want to see in Avengers: Secret Wars?