Avengers: Doomsday working title: why does it point to the TVA?

A Forbes report on Avengers: Doomsday revealed the working title Marvel Studios used for the film, For All Time Productions, and I think that name gives us some big clues about the story. It's also something quite poetic. The same report dug into the production's spending and found that the film's preproduction costs had already tripled those of Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania, with Forbes saying they were expected to keep rising.

Forbes did a lot of digging, contacted sources and ran a lot of math for its MCU report. Before getting to the numbers and what Forbes estimated Avengers: Doomsday and Avengers: Secret Wars could make, the production company name deserves a closer look, because it says some interesting things about the movie.

The For All Time Productions name nods to the TVA from Loki

In its article titled Disney reveals spending on Avengers doomsday, Forbes stated that filming was set to start at the end of that month at Pinewood Studios in the United Kingdom, under the working title For All Time Productions. Forbes said the Disney subsidiary behind Doomsday is called For All Time Productions UK, and described the name as a nod to the movie's setting in multiple eras.

What's interesting is that Forbes framed the name as both a reference to the TVA from Loki and a hint that the narrative will span different eras of time and space. That sounds awesome to me. If you saw Loki season 1 and season 2, you're probably familiar with the TVA slogan, "For all time. Always." That happens to be the name of the production company for Avengers: Doomsday.

To me, this tells us the TVA is going to be heavily involved in the plot of Avengers: Doomsday, and by extension, so is Loki.

Alex Perez says Doctor Doom and the Avengers race to reach Loki first

Alex Perez from The Cosmic Circus revealed some interesting plot points for Avengers: Doomsday. He explained that Doctor Doom and his team, whoever that team consists of, are going to be racing against another team, the Avengers, to see who can get to Loki first.

We know from Loki season 2 that Loki is holding together the entire Multiverse. He's the reason it currently exists, and the reason branch timelines can now happen. Before that, under the rule of He Who Remains, every branch timeline got pruned.

A common question, and a good one, is how exactly Doom or the Avengers would get to Loki. The answer lies in something else Alex Perez said: Doctor Doom is upset with Kang and the TVA because of how Kang treated the Sacred Timeline and every other universe besides it.

How Doctor Doom could reach Loki through the TVA

At this point it seems pretty clear that Robert Downey Jr.'s Doctor Doom is not going to be from our universe, so he's not from the Sacred Timeline. And the Sacred Timeline, even when other universes exist, has clearly had preferential treatment. Look at Deadpool & Wolverine, where Mr. Paradox tells Deadpool the TVA will take him out of his universe and bring him into the big one, the prime universe. It's made out to be a big deal, and going there is presented as very special.

Apparently we're going to find out in Avengers: Doomsday that this angered Robert Downey Jr.'s Doctor Doom, so I believe he's going to go after the TVA. Doom is one of the most powerful sorcerers in Marvel history. He's also a genius who uses a lot of tech. He could definitely find out about the TVA's existence, and once he did, he'd only have to make it to the TVA and steal their technology, which shouldn't be hard.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually find out the TVA visited Doom's universe and he overthrew them, took their technology, and that's how he learned about them. From there, he takes Kang's technology, figures out how it works and reverse engineers it. Combining Kang's ultimate technology with his sorcery would make him incredibly powerful, and that will probably enable him to get to Loki.

How the Avengers might get to Loki, from Doctor Strange to Mobius

As for how the Avengers get there, perhaps they use the Quantum Realm. Perhaps they use Doctor Strange. Maybe Mobius goes to the Avengers for help.

That last idea comes from what we heard about Deadpool & Wolverine. Originally, that film was reportedly going to have Deadpool, Wolverine and Mobius working for the TVA, going around trying to recruit great heroes to stop the Multiverse from collapsing. We also heard it could have been that the TVA was simply trying to save the greatest heroes of them all, because the Multiverse was going to be destroyed.

So both teams use the TVA, and it becomes a race to Loki.

Robert Downey Jr. versus Loki brings the MCU full circle

That means in Avengers: Doomsday we'd essentially get the opposite of the first Avengers film. Back then it was Robert Downey Jr. as Tony Stark against Tom Hiddleston's Loki. Now the fate of the Multiverse comes down to Loki and Robert Downey Jr.

He's not necessarily Iron Man, but I still believe he's probably playing a Tony Stark variant. I know they've said he's playing Victor. But the Russo brothers said Avengers: Endgame wasn't called Avengers: Endgame. They lie to avoid giving things away and to throw us off, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's playing Tony Stark. In fact, I expect that to be the case.

So it could come down to Loki versus Tony Stark for the fate of the universe, which is what the first Avengers film was. We've come full circle in the MCU, and I think it's cool. I've seen many people who think the same thing call it poetic, and I agree, especially given Loki's arc and how far he has come. It's been absolutely amazing.

It's all going to come down to the TVA and Loki at the end. Since we're getting Avengers: Secret Wars, which is most likely going to give us Battleworld, it unfortunately seems like Loki and the TVA are going to lose. If there is a Battleworld, that's the only thing left in the Multiverse, and Loki can't hold the Multiverse together if there isn't one. I think most of us expected that. Either way, this sounds awesome for the plot of Avengers: Doomsday, and the official name of the production company backed that up.

Forbes says Avengers: Doomsday tripled Quantumania's preproduction costs

Forbes reported that Avengers: Doomsday's preproduction costs were three times those of Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania and were expected to keep rising. The report described Quantumania as one of the biggest box office bombs in MCU history, partly because it only gathered 476 million dollars worldwide.

Forbes stated that Avengers: Doomsday and Avengers: Secret Wars were expected to have the biggest budgets of the MCU's entire Multiverse Saga, but that the actual numbers may still exceed expectations.

Before getting into the new details it had learned, Forbes laid out the numbers. So far, Marvel Studios had reportedly spent 8 million dollars on Avengers: Doomsday, whereas the studio had only spent 2.5 million dollars on Quantumania around 10 months into its preproduction. Marvel's reported monthly spending on Doomsday also doubled that of the Ant-Man threequel. The kicker is that Forbes said Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame cost 800 million dollars to a billion to make, meaning Avengers: Doomsday and Avengers: Secret Wars could cost up to 2 billion dollars in total.

Why I see the bigger budget as a sign of Marvel's confidence

This may seem worrying to some people, but I think it's great news. Marvel is going all out with the next two Avengers films, which it should, especially considering the buildup to these films hasn't been that much.

That's due to the Multiverse Saga's original story building up to Kang. Marvel Studios ditched Kang, and Robert Downey Jr. returned as Doctor Doom, so the setups for Kang are largely gone. There might still be some things they can salvage. But at the time, Avengers: Doomsday was due the following year and there wasn't even an official Avengers team in the MCU.

Marvel knows the position it's in, so going extremely big on these two movies is great to hear. It means the studio has confidence in them. To me, it means that based on all the talks with the Russo brothers and Robert Downey Jr., and on the script and the overall story it has seen for both films, Marvel Studios has confidence these movies are going to be massive. That's why it's putting so much money behind them.

Forbes estimates 4.8 billion dollars for Doomsday and Secret Wars

According to Forbes, if you use Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame as a reference point, Avengers: Doomsday and Avengers: Secret Wars should make around 4.8 billion dollars. That could mean Avengers: Secret Wars becomes the highest grossing film of all time. It would have to beat Avengers: Endgame, which grossed around 2.748 billion dollars, and of course Avatar.

Given what Marvel's plans seem to be for Doomsday and Secret Wars, I'd say these movies have the potential to be bigger. If the Fantastic Four film is strong, Spider-Man 4 is strong, and everything else between Doomsday and Secret Wars is great, then yes, I think Avengers: Secret Wars can beat Avengers: Endgame.