Russo Brothers Call Avengers: Doomsday Phase Zero as Robert Downey Jr. Vows to Earn Fans' Trust

Joe Russo has said Avengers: Doomsday takes the Marvel Cinematic Universe back to phase zero. Robert Downey Jr., who plays Doctor Doom in the film, appeared with the Russo brothers at SXSW London and said they would do their best to earn the fans' trust back. Some of what the Russos said has landed with people in different ways. Parts of it are controversial with the fandom, while other fans see it as a great sign for the movie. I like it, and I think the phase zero label was chosen for a reason.

Robert Downey Jr. at SXSW London: zeroing out the board after Infinity War and Endgame

Downey made a surprise appearance with the Russo brothers at SXSW London. They said they would take one more question from the audience up top, and then Downey walked in. Everybody went crazy, and it was cool to see. He told the crowd: "What we've been laboring so hard and long over the past year is we can't beat it and we can't stand on the shoulders of these two giants of Infinity War and Endgame."

He went on: "So we're literally zeroing out the board. We're going to try and earn your trust and respect all over again and with the likes of these fellows, I think we have a pretty good shot."

I like this a lot because I think it's very real. I think Downey has seen everything that has gone on over the past handful of years, and I think most people would say that, so far, the Infinity Saga was better than the Multiverse Saga. I'm not saying the Multiverse Saga was terrible. I do think we got some good projects out of it, but there were some misses.

Why I think Downey's promise to Marvel fans rings true

Fans range on this. Some think the Multiverse Saga is bad, some have liked everything, and some are in the middle. Downey is acknowledging the people who have been disappointed with Marvel since Avengers: Endgame. When I was talking it over with some friends, we found it funny, because although he isn't saying this, it almost feels like Downey could be saying: I left, it wasn't so good, so I'm coming back to make it good again. The same goes for Chris Evans.

Still, I like it because I think it's real. I think they're acknowledging that Infinity War and Endgame are giants, and that trying to beat those movies is near impossible. They're going to try anyway, and they're going to go about it a different way. That's what I think he's saying, and they're doing it so they can earn our respect back as Marvel fans. I like that a lot.

Joe Russo says Avengers: Doomsday is back to phase zero

One write-up of the interviews ran under the title Russo brothers declare "We're back to Phase Zero" with Avengers: Doomsday and Robert Downey Jr. Joe Russo said that a series shifting, changing, surprising you and then reinventing itself is exciting. "And I think you're going to see some shifting and changing with Doomsday. So, get ready for it," he said.

He added that he and Downey had been discussing the concept of being back to phase zero when they were together that day. "This is starting over from scratch. We want to make sure everybody feels like this isn't leaning on anything from the past," he said.

Variety's co-editor-in-chief asked the filmmakers how they handle such a huge, star-studded ensemble cast. They said each of those actors plays somebody's favorite character, so if they don't serve that character properly, they'll disappoint someone in the audience. "We grew up in the biggest Italian family. We understand how to tell stories with multiple characters," they said, explaining that much of it comes down to very subtle shifts in point of view throughout the story.

They gave an example from Infinity War: "If Thor, when he lands, actually cuts off Thanos's head, and then Thor becomes the hero of that movie, that's how close those points of view are to each other." They said all of that is very calibrated from a structural standpoint.

Could the point of view comments hint at different versions of Doomsday?

This interested me because there has been talk about the possibility of different versions of the movie playing in theaters. I've said that if they do this, it has to be the exact same movie, but with some scenes shown from a different point of view.

The Russos' comments might be a subtle hint toward that. It might be nothing, but it might be a subtle hint. If they are going to release different variants of the movie, pun intended, I think it should simply be some battles and fights told from somebody else's point of view. Or maybe even from a different audience point of view, not tied to specific characters at all.

Why I think Doomsday is phase zero and Avengers: Secret Wars is phase one

The Russo brothers have said from the beginning, and Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige has said too, that Avengers: Endgame was the end and Avengers: Doomsday is a new beginning. So I think Doomsday is phase zero, not phase one. I don't think they're saying phase one for a reason. I think Avengers: Secret Wars is phase one, because I think that's when the true new universe starts.

My theory is that phase zero is about getting rid of the old universe and moving into a purgatory type of situation. At the very end, we'll have a new universe created by Doom. After Doctor Doom gets his universe, someone, whether it's Franklin Richards with Reed Richards and the Scarlet Witch or whoever it might be, will create a new universe where everyone can live together in harmony: the X-Men, the Fantastic Four, the Avengers, everyone. That will be phase one.

I also think this means they're adding new characters, and some of them will get the spotlight. We've been talking about Sadie Sink being Jean Grey for a long time, and people still ask why she would be in Spider-Man: Brand New Day. My answer is that it's the last movie before Avengers: Doomsday and Avengers: Secret Wars, and they want to start setting up the future of the MCU now rather than waiting for the very first movie of the new era. I think that's a very smart idea.

I think we'll get other new characters in Doomsday and Secret Wars as well. Based on what we're hearing, the new Black Panther should be introduced in Avengers: Doomsday and or Avengers: Secret Wars, and he'll go on to become the main Black Panther of the new MCU.

Is Avengers: Doomsday really not leaning on the past?

Many people have pushed back on the claim that the movie isn't leaning on the past. Their argument is that it obviously does: Downey is back, Chris Evans is back as the same Captain America, and the old X-Men and other old characters are returning. Some have called the line cheesy, desperate or absurd.

They are relying on the past, but in a specific way. I think they're bringing it in for the story, and this is the Multiverse Saga. Having the old X-Men come back as part of a different universe is cool. Having Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man in the movie because he's from a different universe is cool, and we saw how cool that was with Spider-Man: No Way Home. I think it's going to be epic, and I think it adds to an overall story that doesn't rely on the past.

If you know the past, the movie will be much better than if you don't. But I think what they're saying is that you don't have to watch everything that came before to understand what's going on, and they'll explain it well. Even then, I'd still watch almost all of the MCU, and definitely Loki, WandaVision and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. There are things you have to watch.

The way I interpret it, they have a completely new story. The past characters are coming in, but the movie isn't relying on them to tell the full story. The story is about Doom and the multiverse. Everything from the past is a great bonus, and I guess you could say you don't need to have seen the old X-Men films to understand the movie. I also read it as them bringing in new characters to start the new part of the MCU. This is about the future.

What fans think phase zero means for Avengers: Doomsday

I asked fans what they made of it. Ezra wrote: "My interpretation is that they're saying Doomsday is meant to be a fresh starting point for Marvel and that they don't want the movie to rely solely on nostalgia, cameos, and old storylines to be good. Whether they actually pull that off is another question." I agree on both parts. This is a big undertaking. Infinity War and Endgame were the biggest movies, and Endgame was the biggest of all time. I don't count the Avatar re-release, and I thought maybe a theatrical re-release of Endgame could put it back on top. Beating that would be a lot, especially with Downey effectively saying they lost people's trust. If they pull it off, they pull it off.

ITC argued that the Russos don't mean to ignore Phase 4 or 5, because key multiverse projects lead into Doomsday and Secret Wars. I agree completely. You can't ignore Loki. A quick recap that a former villain turned good, and that a variant of him went on after Endgame to become the god of stories sitting on a throne outside of space, is hard to grasp and hard to summarize. Multiverse of Madness is a big one too.

Another fan said Doomsday will be completely different and even better than Infinity War and Endgame. I hope that's the case. Based on what we're hearing, the movie will be wild, and seeing the X-Men fight the Avengers is something we've waited a long time for. If the action and the story are good, I think it has a chance to be better, but they have to hit a home run on every aspect. That's possible, but it's hard. I think the Russos can do it.

The cast also gives me confidence. I heard that Tom Holland and Zendaya were shooting a scene for Spider-Man: Brand New Day when they stopped, asked whether it was working, and agreed it wasn't. Production reportedly shut down for the day, the scene was rewritten overnight, and the new version is said to be one of the best in the film. Doomsday has veterans like Chris Hemsworth, Chris Evans and Downey who I think would speak up if something wasn't working.

A fan going by New but not pro suggested phase zero could mean introducing new characters for the reboot, potentially Sadie Sink as Jean Grey. That's exactly what I think: a chance for characters like Jean Grey and Black Panther, plus some cool cameos, to become new leaders of the MCU.

Shinji22 wrote that phase zero means treating Doomsday as a fresh standalone, and that Downey's Doctor Doom will be "a completely new terrifying entity, not just a nostalgic Tony Stark clone relying on endgame memories." I agree, though I think lore and nostalgia do add to it. No Way Home was amazing to me because Tobey is my favorite Spider-Man, and seeing him with Andrew and Tom together was cool. I'm excited to see Cyclops hopefully done right, and the two seconds we've seen suggest he is. Nostalgia plays a role, but it shouldn't be relied on. I also hope Doom is his own character, not connected to Tony Stark in any obvious way, and incredibly terrifying. That's how it should be.

Either way, I think fans see this fresh start the Russos are talking about as a very good thing. Pulling it all off in Avengers: Doomsday won't be easy, but I still have faith.